> TEOTWAWKI Blog: Military Arms Channel on the SB-15, final thoughts until ATF clarification is available...

Pages

1/6/15

Military Arms Channel on the SB-15, final thoughts until ATF clarification is available...



MAC is spot on, here and worth a watch. I would agree on the recommendation - if you want to play it safe with an AR-15 pistol, get one that comes as a pistol from the factory. Sig's pistols, BCM's pistol or similar from other manufacturers.

Then, it's sold and transferred to you as a pistol, says it's a pistol on the box, marketed as such, and the manufacturer's intent is without a doubt - it is clearly a pistol. This prevents any kind of confusion and potential legal entanglements about 'intent' to manufacture an SBR that could come up with a DIY build.

That said, the ATF hasn't come forward to clear up matters at this point. They could clarify that shouldering an SB-15 brace occasionally, even on a factory made pistol, is a no-no. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if that was the final outcome. Good luck on enforcing that one, though.

If such an opinion is released, I would expect it to apply to the various SB-15 knock offs like the Thorsden, the Sig SBX brace, etc. 

Personally, my interest in an AR pistol has waned. I've decided against 300 Blackout - logistics being the deal breaker - which points me to a 10.5-11 inch pistol in 5.56. With muzzle devices installed, such a pistol offers only 3.5 to 4 inches of barrel length savings over a 14.5 inch rifle with a pinned comp...and the pinned 14.5er is legally a rifle, versus a gimped pistol and the various associated downsides.

Any thoughts from the tribe? Tired of this mess yet?

14 comments :

  1. Without a defined role it is just nothing more than niche gun. The other problem you would had to face is the increase barrel pressure from the shorter barrel wearing out or damaging any suppressor you mount on the pistol. The link I posted in the previous article covers this issue and other issues pretty well with the testing to support it on different barrel lengths for ARs.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Agree that a suppressed 5.56 pistol is generally a non-starter, unless you have Uncle Sam paying for your gear. There is a niche role for 10.5s - they are popular for CQB stuff with door kickers, for example. Vehicle use, etc.

      Delete
  2. One more thing, stay away from comps. Get a got flash suppressor, not a comp. A comp rifle will rattle your brain in closed in areas and only really helps on muzzle climb when shooting full auto. If you need one shooting semi than you need to re-examine your shooting stance. I have run the following drill with him and there is not comp on that rifle. There is a total of 12 round fire during that drill and they are all center mass. I went from 5 second the first time down to 3 seconds after only about 20 minutes with him coaching me.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hXV-Buvs1Y

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Effects will vary by comp, and shooting any kind of rifle indoors will rattle your brains. Seeing as top competition shooters universally use some kind of comp, I would say there is merit beyond full auto use. Look at the big ol' comps Jerry Miculek uses...it would be pretty silly to fault his form.

      Delete
    2. I would argue learning proper technique would be better, but each to their own. I also do not like being next to that "guy" on the range who is using a comp barrel. Comparing a competition shooter who will also load their ammo to the lowest grain along with a compensated barrel to get the lowest recoil and still have the weapon cycle to a CQB set up is more of an apple to oranges comparison. If your goal is competition shooting than Jerry is an awesome shooter in that area for sure, but I am interested in accurate shooting that incorporated good sound CQB tactics as well. I prefer to learn from a good instructor who has been there and done that, than just someone teaching someone else's theory. With all that said I am just not a compensated barrel guy, because I have used them and have been next to shooters using them. I just do not like the feeling I am going to throw up because of the nausea cause by the constant pressure wave put out by a compensated weapon. That is just me, other love them like no tomorrow!!!

      Delete
    3. Completely agree r.e. Proper technique over gear, all day long.

      The point is that some of the best of the best instructors and been there done that guys use comps. Comp/muzzle brake design has come a long way from the old days, and there are many designs out there that will offer much of the benefit without the concussion, so I would argue against dismissing them entirely.

      Delete
  3. If you reload the 300 blk is an awesome 300 yard and in gun and perfect for home defense. If you can get a silencer that makes it all the better. It also has the ability to have a much shorter barrel (9”-6”) without losing massive amounts of velocity vs 556. There is the additional benefit of just a barrel change which you could sell if you want to get out of blackout and repurpose the upper for 556. So my opinion is you may want to mull over the blackout a bit more.

    On the pistol with a sig brace: The brace is legal, it does not look like they will be changing that anytime soon. They can’t tell you how to use a gun so if you shoulder it, you are not in violation of the law. There is all kinds of drama around this but at the end of the day I think it’s a non-issue. That being said, an SBR is a better option as your primary and use the pistol when you want to use the pistol for CCW for example or moving across state lines without filing paperwork. Just my 2 cents.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Agree r.e. the virtues of 300 blk and was strongly leaning that way. It's just plain better in a shorter gun. Decision to skip out on a pistol, logistics and realization that I need to get squared away better on my 556 stockpile to begin have steered me away from blackout...for now, at least.

      I think the situation with the Sig brace won't change until a) the ATF clarifies their stance and b) prosecutes some poor soul for building a pistol, bragging online that they've circumvented NFA laws, and posting lots of pictures of them shoulder firing while flipping off the ATF.

      Delete
    2. Completely agree. And as a staunch supporter of the 2nd amendment and not a huge fan of the ATF I would add it is never a good idea to be flipping off the ATF.

      Exact opposite of being a grey man.

      Delete
  4. Your point about an AR pistol only actually being 2-3 inches shorter is extremely valid. I might have to ponder that one for awhile. Another consideration is cost. For whatever reason everything AR pistol just seems to cost more. Don't even get me started on the weird neutered $40 stock sold for $139 called the Arm Brace. From a financial perspective it is crazy and the legal piece is troubling also.

    Maybe I will just make another carbine.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    2. Cheaper to just buy an 11.5 upper and pay the 200 tax and register an existing lower as a SBR.

      http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-BFH-11-5-Carbine-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-11%20bfh.htm

      Delete
  5. I purchased a lower last April with the express intent of building an AR-15 pistol. On the advice of a commenter on another website, I requested that my firearm application be marked for use as a pistol. The dealer (PSA) told me that all lowers were sold as unspecified and your end use dictated whether it was a rifle, pistol, or AOW.

    Next time I may just WRITE it on the application, so if there is ever a question of my original intent, I can refer the questioning party to my firearms application.

    ReplyDelete