> TEOTWAWKI Blog: The Walking Dead Open Thread

Pages

2/19/12

The Walking Dead Open Thread


Here's your place to discuss tonight's episode, Triggerfinger. Thoughts, reactions, takeaways--all here.

From the previews, it looks like Rick, Glenn and Hershel have to face off against a group of bad guys, plus perhaps an ensuing zombie horde. Whether Shane will intervene is in question, and last time we saw Lori, she'd flipped a car in zombie territory. Should be an action-packed show tonight--I'm looking forward to it!

37 comments :

  1. RomeroNJulietFebruary 19, 2012

    Tonight was a pretty strong episode. From an effects standpoint, I think the Zombie forcing it's way through Lori's windshield was some of the best zombie footage I've ever seen. The fact that it's face was sliding backward as it's jaws slid forward was genius. Women on this show seem to favor narrow objects in the eye as a preferred zombie killing method; elegant and effective, at least by the standards of "Walking Dead".

    I'm sure the concept of urban combat with raiders is in many preppers' wheelhouse. As for myself, I kept thinking about a game of paintball I once played. In a large arena, a small group of opponents defended a 2-story structure from my team, which was larger. We each received 2 lives, and our objective was to take the structure. We failed miserably! With no particular training or tactical planning, we were decimated in a barrage of paint. The loss always stuck with me, and I certainly feel that Rick's crew were in a far better position in this particular altercation.

    I may have missed the first minute of the episode, but WHY did Rick and the sidekicks stay in the bar, with the corpses, until AFTER sundown? It seemed like the shoot-out occurred in daylight, or at least around dusk. We know gunshots attract walkers, and they could have assumed that it would also attract more raiders as well. If it were me, the moment the immediate threat was done, I'd rally my group, loot anything useful (yes, alcohol has many other uses), then burn the place down. With any luck, if raiders happened upon the scene, they'd assume their guys got drunk and had an accident. At the very least, I'd want to be out of there as quickly as possible.

    Can't wait for next episode, Shane vs. Rick...nice.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. History has shown the advantage of the well-entrenched defender (Alamo, Rourke's Drift, etc.). Mas Ayoob talks about it in one of his videos. According to Mas, the entrenched defender usually has around a 7 to 1 advantage--that is, it takes 7 attackers to displace/kill a fortified defender.

      An attacking force needs superior numbers to successfully take out a defender on their own turf.

      Technology can of course play a role on either side, acting as a force multiplier for whoever can implement it. Air power, heavy weapons, night vision, body armor and so on.

      Delete
  2. that dirty rotten scoundrel Shane has gotta go....and his bimbo too.

    ReplyDelete
  3. ....and his bimbo too.

    I'd hit it

    ReplyDelete
  4. We saw so much in this episode. Hershel became quite the changed man. Shane took crap from all directions and Rick got quite the look on his face towards the end. I think all the things that happened tonight will only lead to greater and greater things for the show. I am sure it is obvious by now, but AWESOME episode.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Glenn really disappointed me in this episode whit back the door shooting, yeah bad guy coming from back door, lets shoot the door..... He should have waited till he sees some body parts first and then shoot, not waisting ammo on shadows.
    At least old guy maned up ;D
    And Lori, thats one piece of work there, using her snake talk skills to fullest to try to talk Rick in waisting Shane whit whole property/baby talk, i guess she forgot completely that her kid is walking cos of Shane eeh...

    Group is going to split apart it seems and its for the best, if i was in Shanes shoes i would watch my back for when Honest and Honorable Rick going to betray him, can never trust honest ppl.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Problem with Shane is, yes, he has saved Lori and the boy several times... as well as others in the group, but the whole time it has been with bad intentions. He is hot headed, not calm under pressure and rash...not a good combination anytime, but especially in a survival situation....I mean what can you say about a man that would put his best friend in his shotgun sights? I think if it came down to it, he would sacrifice anyone, including Lori or the boy to save himself. Survival is one thing, but if it was my wife or kids, I'd save them or die with them...no question. Morality takes a backseat in a shtf scenario for alot of people and situations, but you have to draw a line somewhere.....if not, might as well ne a shambling dead guy trying tobeat everyone in your path...same difference. Glen froze and needs to nut up, but at least he realized it, means to correct it and has Loyalty...counts for alot. Lori, well...not the brightest bulb invthe bunch, needs to chill out too. Great episode, my wife been watching sincebthe beginning, she was all pissed off that Glen may have gotten shot...was funny watching her yell at the tv....but you askbher and ahe hates zombie shows! Haha!

    ReplyDelete
  7. Shane is more interested in saving Lori than participating in the group. I think he could give a crap less about the rest of them. He has already proved that he can't be trusted several times. He needs to go or someone else is going to get killed.

    ReplyDelete
  8. This was a disappointing episode!

    They took could have been an action packed fest, like the Shane-Otis hospital run, and made a jump scare babble episode out of it, I didn't like it.

    Glenn actions were disappointing, there was such a similar situation in Fyrefly, where the good guys are surrounded and almost dead, and the prospect of love and sex makes the most wimpy character, Kaylee, man up and shoot the dang gun. Why in the hell should Glenn be made into a super wimp ?

    Maybe it is to build him up later, but having a hot farm girl waiting me to come back alive would give me a good reason to live.

    I don't get why people hate Shane so much, He did the right thing by lying to Lory, because He had to get her back to camp and He barely had the man power or firepower to mount a night rescue. Could someone tell me what would happen if they did go after Rick and run into the Raiders ?

    I know that we are supposed to hate Shane, but I think that He is the most sane person there, even if you factor in all the crappy writing of his character. Shane reduced the number of casualty from 3 (Otis, Shane, Carl) to 1 (Otis) in the Hospital run, He took action to clear the barn, He got Lory back in one piece, and don't look for lost causes in a world of scarce ammo and food.

    I would have enjoyed this one if it was a full urban battle episode instead of this. Dissapointed.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Do I even need to talk about how stupid is it to rescued the kid you plan to make an amputee in a world full of Zombies ? *Facepalm*

      Delete
    2. ye i agree, rescuing guy that shot at you, and got heavy injury that will prevent him from moving for months is stupid, i would not waist any ammo on zombies trying to think out way to amputate leg.
      Shoot kid in head and go on most reasonable.
      And if you really want to amputate leg use damn shotgun.
      As for returning Lori back to camp i would use different approach. Tell he the truth but if she wont agree on going back, knock her out and drag her back.

      Delete
    3. I would have "put him down" as Hershel suggested. Stupid waste of resources--ammo, medical supplies--and risk trying to rescue an enemy. UNLESS they can get some good information out of him--size/nature of the enemy force. I don't think they will, though.

      Delete
    4. @Anonymous:

      I was shot on the leg once, and almost lost an arm in a bad car accident, and in both cases I was shocked down to my core and passed out in one instance.

      You don't tell someone who just had a life-threatening accident and is confused that one of his relatives might be dead/lost.

      Telling the truth would had just resulted in an histerical Lori in the middle of Zombieland.

      @evile451:

      Could you please tell me when did Shane used reckless audacity/ hot headed into action ?

      For one Otis was a cold calculated murder, and I don't remember him doing anything reckless, but always trying to calculate Lori and Karl into his actions.

      Who went into town to get the Redneck back ? Rick.
      Who panicked when Carl needed medicine ? Rick.
      Who was risking everyone's life with a pointless search for Sophia ? Rick.
      Who has ''good guy impulses'' ? Rick

      Delete
    5. Some blame Shane for killing Otis. If you watch the tape, he told Otis to go without him. Otis says no. Shane was visibly upset because he knew they both wouldn't make it and he would have to take drastic but necessary action.

      Delete
  9. I think the Glenn-wimp-coward angle is going to set him up to be the real man and take out shane later. I think Shane and Herschel and his daughter are going to get into it with shane and he will pull a gun on them and Glenn will step up to protect his woman and her family. Just me speculating but somone from the group is going to take Shane out and he will most likely deserve it. His bimbo did have some good points that he was right about some things but his approach is all wrong and as we all know perception is everything , it is always how you a seen not your intent that is what makes the impression and Shanes is he is a hothead and always thinks he is right. He was probably the bad cop in real life and I am sure he probaably "tuned up" quite few people he arrested to blow off steam.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Those who study conflict/combat from a military standpoint are taught that almost any odds or any enemy can be overcome by use of surprise, overwhelming violence and sheer audacity....true..but must be done in a controlled, calculated manner. Shane is not level headed enough for long term survival in a group, at least not for the groups sake.....on his own it may serve him well...Rick, although a thinker jas shown on several occasions that he is willing to do what itvtakes, no matter how horrible or challenging tovsurvive, or just because it is the right thing to do.....remember, it was Rick who shot Sophia when she came out ofvthe barn, not Shane, he just stood back in shock...and Rick kept a cool head and prevailed against two armed assailants.....keep an eye on Rick, I think he's the true "killer" in the group. And if everone remembers, Sophia wasnt the first child Rick has put down!

    ReplyDelete
  11. Overall, great episode. Not an action extravaganza, but lots of suspense and edge-of-your-seat stuff.

    Some excellent make up effects (windshield zombie, raider getting eaten).

    Did you guys catch Rick saving his spent brass during his reload? Great touch.

    We'll see Glenn recover from his mid-fight "freeze"; dealing with zombies is different from shooting it out with raiders. He'll man up in future episodes.

    Hershel's skills with a gun were a surprise--he demonstrated a cool head and an ability to survive in the outside world. The character took a big step up by the end of the episode.

    I'd have put a bullet in the wounded raider, versus risking life, limb and expending valuable resources to save him. They MAY be able to get some information out of him, but it would be questionable information at best.

    Both Rick and Shane have major character flaws, both seen in this episode. Rick is too nice, too much of a "good guy", taking stupid risks for foolish reasons. Shane is Shane, with plenty of his own problems--he's delusional and border line psychotic at times, can't be trusted and so on.

    The conflict between Rick and Shane looks like it will come to blows next week. I was surprised to see Lori encouraging the conflict with her level of honesty with Rick--she's kept so much from him in the past, but I guess she's either decided to open up or is manipulating him.

    It will be interesting to see what happens with the wounded raider--I think Shane might just shoot him (good idea), otherwise he's running back to his gang and will spill whatever information he has acquired.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Did anyone realize the idiocy of Rick plan ''Don't worry, He won't tell his friend where we are because He was blindfolded all the way to here''.

      Given a map, a general travel time and road conditions, ie if they drove for less than 2 hours than the farm is not more than 20 km away, eliminate congestioned highways and obvious Zombie zones.

      The raiders could find the farm in less than 2 weeks if they have at least 20 people on trucks.

      Delete
    2. saving the raider was pointless. grab the guns and split. even if they do save the lag or amputate it with out serious pain meds he will die of shock or infection with out anti-biotics. even if they have these meds waste them on a guy who tried to kill you? i think not

      Delete
  12. Discussing the potential of a new born on the show - Has the premise been established that if the mother is not infected during the pregnancy or birth that the baby therefore can not be infected? What are the chances that unborn in Lori's womb is an undead fetus? Can you envision a story line in which the fetus will need to be moved prematurely before it eats its way out of her womb?

    Gross, but are there any rules in zombie land? Is a ravinous, carnivourous undead infant beyond the scope of the story line?

    Would not be able to call it a "Walker" though. I see a potentail new character classification - "Crawlers".

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Ewwww, you just nasty!!!!

      Delete
    2. I think you found someone eviler than you lol

      The Zombie featus idea is nasty ^_^

      Delete
    3. This is basically what happens in the remake of Dawn of the Dead...it is needlessly gross and something that I couldn't sit through. Vomit.

      Delete
  13. A festering fetus of Zombiedom ...

    Let's name this Festering Fetus "Festus"!

    ReplyDelete
  14. what is with people in this case a preggers woman running off half cocked? it couldnt have been more than a few hours befor lori is all i need to get rick!!!!!!!!!!!!! but i will go by my self and not tell any one where i am going!

    ReplyDelete
  15. Anyone else notice how Hershals' beretta transformed into a Sig?

    ReplyDelete
  16. My neighbor may be a walker...he moves just like the dead people in this series...lol

    ReplyDelete
  17. I think Rick and Shane represent two competing mindsets that would emerge in any long term SHTF or TEOTWAWKI scenario.

    Rick choses to only use deadly force when necessary or forced to. He tries to do for others as he would want others to do for him if he was the “man down”. He thinks, acts and makes decisions as if he is a member of society or at least a civilized person and he encourages others to do the same. He is not perfect, but he holds onto the values and beliefs of a civilized person. By exercising restraint, offering compassion and aide and using nonviolent options first, Rick attempts to maintain a dignity of life and a reminder of who each person was before the world turned. As a parent, he must do this to ensure his son, and soon to be daughter or son, are raised in a positive setting despite the world around them. Rick embodies the principals and values of the pre-TEOTWAWKI society he grew up in and is trying to maintain this for himself, his family and his group. Doing so forces him to forgo a quick and simple solution (e.g., kill them all and let god sort them out) and makes him take more short-term risk (e.g., death) in order to enjoy the long-term benefits.

    Shane has never had to worry about, sacrifices for or provide for others. Having not been married or been a parent he has not experienced the time, effort, sacrifice, worry, concern and compromise it takes to make a marriage work or raise children (I am speaking about Shane and ONLY Shane here so please do not go crazy if you are single or childless). His greatest accomplishments are….bedding numerous women and…well, that was the only one he seems to have discussed in various episodes. His actions, while probably correct, have caused more harm than good, made enemies (e.g., Hershel and family) and continue to alienate him from the group. Rather than work to build a consensus or exercising patience, his actions are knee-jerk and dramatic. Shane has lowered himself to the level of the situation he finds himself in and thus justifies murder as a means to an end. Having committed murder, he can and will do it again and now can more easily accept committing other crimes to achieve his goals. Any morals or values his character may have had in the past are gone. While his actions and thinking may work in the short-term, the lack of planning, forethought or assessment of consequences will catch up with him.

    I think it is an interesting duality that exists between the two. It also gives one pause to think how he or she might act in a similar situation. Do you try your best to maintain the morals and values of a civilized society or abandon these commonly held principles and beliefs and do anything to anyone to ensure your survival? Keep in mind, during the first part of season 2 the Talking Dead show took a vote about what to do with the walkers on the farm and Hershel’s desire to keep them and force the others to leave. An overwhelming response was to kill Hershel and his group and keep the farm for themselves. Makes you think there will probably be more Shanes than Ricks if a TEOTWAWKI ever happens.

    -DB

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. RomeroNJulietFebruary 21, 2012

      DB,

      I think it's very interesting to consider Rick and Shane as metaphors for the extreme ends of SHTF survival strategy. You've hit the nail on the head that Shane's approach is short-term and individualistic, while Rick is acting with a thought to the long-term and the possibility of forming a new society (he's playing a little bit of a leader/politician).

      I would also offer the suggestions that, if the characters are metaphors for survival strategies, we should also consider Lori and Andrea. Lori now finds herself in Rick's camp, shunning Shane (playing the dutiful wife). This, despite the fact that Shane was Lori's best option during the initial stages of infection, when she thought Rick was dead. Andrea was always a bit closer with Shane, not just their passing attraction, but also her assessment of Shane's behavior. Remember when Shane beat the tar out of Mr. Redneck wife-beater?..Andrea found it extreme, but it certainly solved the problem. The fact that she explained to Shane in this episode that his actions at the barn were correct, but his timing and tone weren't, is a big clue to where she falls on the spectrum.

      I think most people would find themselves somewhere between Rick and Shane, though we would naturally lean more in one direction than the other. Few people, I think, would land square in the middle. As for me, putting a Zombie down makes much more sense then leading one around on a leash! I still can't believe that Rick even entertained the idea, beyond the fact that he wanted to secure a place on the farm for his people.

      Delete
    2. What would you do if you were in Shane shoes at the Hospital ?

      Would you kill Otis or have the both killed and Carl die horribly ?

      Delete
  18. DB has an excellent point about Rick and Shane. What I thought was ironic was that even Hershel said they should put down the other guy and then leave while Rick wanted to take him with them.

    I would hope that morally I would take the guy with us. But realistically, it's a lot harder to shoot someone in the head who is alive and is not actively trying to kill you. But I also think taking the guy with them was the wrong decision. You know there is another group and they will want revenge if they find you. Helping out the one guy won't help their situation if they come knocking as they will still be upset about the other three who were killed.

    ReplyDelete
  19. I'd hit shanes bimbo too

    ReplyDelete
  20. Taking the bad guy with them is a trade off, on one hand it took time and risk to save him/bring him with...on the other they could gather good intel from him as to enemy numbers, strenght, resources and location...even if "motivating" him to divulge this is neccessary...I hear water-boarding is quite effective! As far as letting him go, thats not a hard decision..he has already shown hostile intent towards you..get intel from him, put him down. Not a Moral decision, a tactically realistic one.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Putting him down would be a punishment fit for his crimes--raiding and attempted murder.

      Delete
    2. He struck me as a young and impressionable kid who is probably seeking to be seen as an equal amongst the older men in his group (see Glen). Given the limited information he had (friends dead, random 3 man team admits killing them) his actions do not seem malicious. He was doing what Rick might have done. My people got hit, you have to pay. Just because he was shooting at you (the bad guy in his mind) doesn’t make him bad. Plus he was abandoned by his group. Betrayal is an act that has few equals and can make even the most zealous devotee change his colors. This kid was left behind for food by his own group, a reality he probably will neither forgive nor forget. At the very least they can see how he mends, what skills or talents he might have and how he handles being abandoned by his own and saved by the “enemy”. Not saying they should give them the keys to the farm, but in a world with few human assets throwing what could prove to be a useful resource away without due consideration seems…foolish.

      For all we know, he could be an Army medic with extensive battlefield medical experience. He could also be a crack head, but a without any effort to find our Rick and his team could be wasting a perfectly good opportunity to add what could be a vital asset to the team. If they do keep him, integration would be slow and require a fair amount of supervision with many opportunities for this kid to prove himself.

      I guess I see it kind of like hitting a deer in the road. Sure you could just drive a way but why not harvest what could be useful and beneficial rather than letting the whole thing go to waste. Worst case, under supervision and testing he turns out to be useless or unwilling to join the team. In which case, he ends up on the side of some rural road with a bottle of water and a butter knife. I am not championing this kid, I just think in a TEOTWAWKI situation you want to make sure what you are throwing out is truly useless. WWRD (What Would Rick Do)?

      -DB

      Delete
    3. He looked like a criminal who was associated with other criminals, robbers and attempted murderers. We know what his "friends" did, and we know how his group reacted to Rick's suggestion to part ways peacefully.

      Under different circumstances, I could see you point, but these guys were clearly murdering scum.

      Delete
    4. As far as I can tell all this kid knows (from what we see in the episode) is that his 2 friends went searching a town. When they did not come back they went looking for them. What they found were three men who would not let them in the bar when they tried to enter. When they attempted to speak to Rick and friends they are left listening to crickets. When Rick finally did talk he claimed to have killed their friends in self-defense.

      The second group likely has no idea what happened or what Fatty and Jersey Boy attempted to do. But faced with this limited information it is hard to see how anyone would have been willing to put their guns down and make nice. It’s not like Rick was offering an olive branch. We know Rick and gang are the good guys but the reaction of these three to the loss of two of their own does not make them the bad guys, yet. We will see how it develops but my gut is to give the kid the benefit of the doubt. If Rick was not going to do this why bother bringing him all the way back to the farm, treat him and nurse him back to health. Misunderstanding and miscommunication are the gasoline and matches to conflict and strife. Everybody has a piece of information, no one has the full story and everyone acts thinking they are right and hold the moral high ground.

      I am just not convinced yet.

      -DB

      Delete